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DJ Trash-O-Matic  
#1 Posted : Thursday, December 19, 2013 9:27:09 PM(UTC)
DJ Trash-O-Matic

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Location: G.J.

Any Refs that can answer this?
If the ball is on the 5, and you've already used your two bounces off the wall, can you trap the ball on the wall before it bounces off and call a timeout?

Basically the ball gets past the point of getting your player figure around to the wall before you run out of space.

Trashy2BouncesAndTrap
WillEdm  
#2 Posted : Thursday, December 19, 2013 11:57:02 PM(UTC)
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Hey Trashy, I randomly came to your message board today just checking things out. In an ITSF Officials Clinic in 2012 we reviewed this in France.

Rule 23.2 A player cannot make the ball strike the side walls of the table (or the side strips if present) more than twice before passing or shooting from the five-man rod. Regardless of which wall the ball touches, a total of two times is all that is allowed prior to advancing the ball. If the ball goes to the wall a third time, it may not be struck again by any player figure on the passing rod.


Interpretation... If the ball hits the wall and you trap it without the ball coming off the wall first, you are fine. A safer solution is probably to just allow the ball to bounce off the wall a third time and then NOT TOUCH the ball. Once it rests to a stop you can take a time out as long as you have not touched the ball after the 3rd wall.

DJ Trash-O-Matic  
#3 Posted : Friday, December 20, 2013 12:14:10 AM(UTC)
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Thanks Will....Good to know!
I was practicing a slow brush and just thought what if...... I got one more look?



Trashyrulefollower
Carter  
#4 Posted : Friday, December 20, 2013 12:28:39 AM(UTC)
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That interpretation doesn't sound right. I used to be a certfied ref, and the rules have changed. Hence, I could be wrong.

IMO, it is an automatic turn over if the ball hits the wall 3 times, regardless if you don't touch the ball after hitting the wall a third time. You can't call a time out to reset your walls after hitting it a wall a 3rd time. That just doesn't seem right. Plus, I have never seen anyone try to pull this move on me. If they did, then I would call a ref and stop the shenanigans.
Slice/  
#5 Posted : Friday, December 20, 2013 12:53:14 AM(UTC)
Slice/

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Originally Posted by: Carter Go to Quoted Post
That interpretation doesn't sound right. I used to be a certfied ref, and the rules have changed. Hence, I could be wrong.

IMO, it is an automatic turn over if the ball hits the wall 3 times, regardless if you don't touch the ball after hitting the wall a third time. You can't call a time out to reset your walls after hitting it a wall a 3rd time. That just doesn't seem right. Plus, I have never seen anyone try to pull this move on me. If they did, then I would call a ref and stop the shenanigans.


First of all Glenn let's clarify one thing, you are certified rough in foosball, not ref.

There may have been a change in the rule from your time because I have a rule book that was included with my icebox that I got maybe 2 years ago, but it is dated as revised 7/00 and 6/03, kinda outdated for a table bought in 2010 or 2011, IMO. The rule is 21.3 and it reads:

Before attempting a pass from the five-man rod, the player cannot make the ball strike the side wall of the table more than twice. It makes no difference which wall the ball touches - a total of two times is all that is allowed. If the ball goes to the wall a third time, it must be advanced in the motion of a pass or shot.

So if this is the current rule then you would be correct. If the earlier posting is the current rule then I think their interpretation would be correct.
WillEdm  
#6 Posted : Friday, December 20, 2013 1:31:50 AM(UTC)
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Carter - I had the same question actually after hearing the ruling in France. It was also brought up at the HOFC 2012 in Vegas (only three months later) and Adrian Zamora / Tom Yore ran the Officials Clinic, they confirmed the ruling too. Those are the most recent clinic's I've attended, so I'm not sure if anything has changed since then. Here is the rest of the ruling for 23.2 which is in relation to walls on the 5 row.

23.2.1 Defensive trap - if an opponent's pass or shot is caught by trapping it
against the side wall, that does not count as one of the two times allowed to
touch the wall by the player who made the trap and is now in possession of the
ball on his five-man rod.

23.2.2 Once the ball has touched the wall or side strip, it will not be counted as
hitting the wall again until it has rolled off the side strip or is sufficiently
maneuvered away from the wall if there is no side strip present and the ball
has come to rest against the wall.

23.2.3 Following a time-out, any strike the ball makes against the wall prior to
touching a second man will not be counted against the allowed two strikes.

The main point of interest there is that once the ball has hit the wall, if it takes a few tries to get the ball off the wall(as long as the outside of the ball doesn't come completely clear of the entire side strip, it is still your first wall. If you had the ball pinned on the wall after a defensive block, then it takes a few tries to get it off the wall, you are still clear with 0 walls.

DJ Trash-O-Matic  
#7 Posted : Friday, December 20, 2013 2:15:50 AM(UTC)
DJ Trash-O-Matic

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Good stuff Will!

I appreciate the clarification of the rule!

JustlookingforthatedgeTrashy





Old Sweater  
#8 Posted : Friday, December 20, 2013 3:19:53 AM(UTC)
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Working on a pinned wall pass, ain't ya Trashy?

Open hand Sam use to work on a bounce near the wall, that he could flick over the foot of the D man, pinned against the wall. Not high percentage, but was amusing.
FooserX  
#9 Posted : Friday, December 20, 2013 4:08:31 AM(UTC)
FooserX

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I'm with Carter.

2 walls, and the 3rd wall has to be in form of a wall pass.

A trap would be a 3rd wall, not in the form of a pass, resulting in a turnover to the opposing 5.



The only way that wouldn't be true, would be an example like Will said...where you use the wall multiple times trying to get a pinned ball stuck on the wall to come off. The add-on of "don't touch the ball with a man, and then call time out" might be allowed, but good luck arguing that in the local tourney. That is nit picking and I don't see the average fooser being okay with that unless a head ref is there (Like Cheez)

X

Edited by user Friday, December 20, 2013 4:11:22 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

"When I get to the table, that person, I don't care who they are, they're my mortal enemy. I hate them. " - John Grizzly
Rippin1  
#10 Posted : Friday, December 20, 2013 6:07:16 AM(UTC)
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There wouldn't be a discussion if they just got rid of the rule period. Why have a limit on walls, there's only 10 seconds to pass regardless, who freakin cares how many times the ball hits the wall!! Stupid rule!
Old Sweater  
#11 Posted : Friday, December 20, 2013 1:31:26 PM(UTC)
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I agree with Rippin. One of the things I liked watching was T Spree's 100walls/15 sec option, he ran on the 2 bar, for singles. But for some reason, the game don't cater to the fans? Oh yeah, there ain't many. I wonder why? :)

1-ball rollerball baby! That is where it's at! Put some dynamite back in the game that is suppose to be dynamic, instead of static.
DJ Trash-O-Matic  
#12 Posted : Friday, December 20, 2013 1:31:57 PM(UTC)
DJ Trash-O-Matic

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I agree w/ Rick, get rid of the 2 wall rule.

Not a shenanigan Carter, just checking the rule.


NoPinnedPassingTrashy
Old Sweater  
#13 Posted : Friday, December 20, 2013 3:53:15 PM(UTC)
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NoPinnedPassingTrashy



What! Be a another nice option with a 2 game, 4-0 lead against a beginner.

DynoSweater

Edited by user Friday, December 20, 2013 3:54:30 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

777  
#14 Posted : Friday, December 20, 2013 4:09:39 PM(UTC)
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Rippin might have a good point here, especially since there's only 10 seconds. I suppose it could be a slight advantage, leading to more possessions and more scoring. But isn't that what Tornado wanted in the first place?
FooserX  
#15 Posted : Friday, December 20, 2013 4:20:20 PM(UTC)
FooserX

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Have you seen players use the unlimited wall tactic before? It's basically the same thing as a stopped pass. You just keep bouncing the ball off the wall rapid fire until you see a big opening.

Unlimited walls with the 2-5 pass is god awful rule that needs to be changed. It's just rediculously overpowering.

X
"When I get to the table, that person, I don't care who they are, they're my mortal enemy. I hate them. " - John Grizzly
Slice/  
#16 Posted : Friday, December 20, 2013 4:24:37 PM(UTC)
Slice/

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News Flash

You can change anything you want in foosball and it still won't lead to a mass influx of fans, especially those not into foosball. Puhleeeez!
Old Sweater  
#17 Posted : Friday, December 20, 2013 4:33:52 PM(UTC)
Old Sweater

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News Flash Two

It would lead to more players plus fans if you give the 99.99999% of the world, what they think foosball is. Minus the pure spin of the rods. We've all seen the dying demand for the game with all the static play. Worth a whirl, players for the players sure ain't working state side. Even the static game of pool offers different games and formats.

Football would be in far better demand today, without the forward pass. :) compared to foos.

Edited by user Friday, December 20, 2013 4:38:20 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Slice/  
#18 Posted : Friday, December 20, 2013 4:54:59 PM(UTC)
Slice/

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Dream Weaver!

Foosball has no large fan base outside of foosball. Changing world, no going back. If it wasn't for boring things like the rollover foos would have less than half of what they do now.

My favorite plane of all time is the P-51 Mustang. Why don't they bring that back into service? More people would join the Air Force I'm sure!
Old Sweater  
#19 Posted : Friday, December 20, 2013 4:55:09 PM(UTC)
Old Sweater

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Originally Posted by: FooserX Go to Quoted Post
Have you seen players use the unlimited wall tactic before? It's basically the same thing as a stopped pass. You just keep bouncing the ball off the wall rapid fire until you see a big opening.

Unlimited walls with the 2-5 pass is god awful rule that needs to be changed. It's just rediculously overpowering.

X


Perfect player for the player reply. When has more added offense killed demand for any game or sport? Yeah, the more static a game becomes is better for the percentage players, but how can the world relate to that? They can't. Dollars to donuts, if you want to see demand grow for a game, you have to give them something they can relate to. I know what goes into the game, like going short, middle and long with the same shot. So I am one of the .0000001 of the world that can relate and still find some players game so boring, I can't watch them trying to be Spear with Wild Thang for talent. I know you guys get my drift.
FooserX  
#20 Posted : Friday, December 20, 2013 5:06:10 PM(UTC)
FooserX

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Posts: 1,087

Originally Posted by: Old Sweater Go to Quoted Post
When has more added offense killed demand for any game or sport?


This is like Japanese baseball where players just keep going up to the plate slapping at the ball hoping to get singles vs. American Home Run hitters. Which is more fun to watch?

There's nothing fun about watching someone use 10 walls in a 2-5 series over 14 seconds. There's NO offense in there vs. a 2 bar bomb.

I'm not saying take out the 2-5, just give it the same rules as the 5-3. You have 5 more seconds with the 2-5 pass, and less men to pass through. It's rediculous.

Like Jim said - no rule change is going to bring in more players.

X

Edited by user Friday, December 20, 2013 5:06:41 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

"When I get to the table, that person, I don't care who they are, they're my mortal enemy. I hate them. " - John Grizzly
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